The Saga Continues continued

If you found this file in an archive then put keyword "nutteing3" in a search engine to find a live / recent version. This and associated files have been on the internet more than 3 years now,known to all concerned in Wiltshire and strange as it may seem nothing libellous in any of the files.

Another Transcribed Telephone Call

Starting at 00 . 38 on 8 July 1997

Paul_____ You've just woken me up - who's this
Stella___ Hello,Paul,it's Stella here,did you get my messages
P_ Well the lights blinking but I haven't listened yet
S_ Well OK,I've left several messages and I think you know why don't you
P_ Nothing particular
S_ Well I think so Paul . think back
P_ Sorry
S_ I said I think so,think back
P_ What about
S_ You went round to see Jan at the weekend [ A now ex-friend of Stella's after more than 20 years being friends ]
P_ Jan oh yeah,yeah
S_ She told you that she would ring me
P_ Yeah
S_ And tell me what it was all about ,so what is going on
P_ Well I just want to get some outside independent thought on these things
S_ Right,so why have you got yourself,I've been talking to Leafe,so wound up about these things .
P_ Well no one is telling me anything so ..
S_ Well you haven't asked
P_ Well you didn't explain the last time I brought things up with you
S_ Well how long ago was that,about 20 odd years ago
P_ No about 6 .. 5 months ago or something
S_ When I came down to see you
P_ Look its quite straightforward,are you denying that we lived together ,while Fian was conceived
S_ Yes but I happen to know that ...
P_ Are you denying that
S_ Paul,no I'm not denying that
P_ Right OK
S_ I can tell you
P_ That's a start
S_ (huff) ,I can tell you that Fian isn't yours alright
P_ Lets carry on this line .. carry on this line OK . You're not denying we had sex together round about the time Fian was conceived .
S_ No,er um well no actually we didn't have sex together about the time Fian was conceived,that's why I am so sure
P_ Well there's not much point in talking to you any more
S_ Well what,what makes you think that Fian is actually yours,I've never actually claimed that he was .
P_ Look this conversation is ridiculous
S_ Well yes,I can agree but it obviously has to be sorted out but my concern is for Fian
P_ Well yes
S_ Both my children actually because Leafe is quite upset as well
P_ I'm not surprised
S_ And you've disconcerted Jan somewhat by turning up at her home . Paul , what's the matter
P_ I can't see much point in carrying on this conversation . Whatever you're saying is at complete variance to what I'm saying
S_ Well what are you saying ,I don't really know what ...
P_ I'm saying ,I'm quite prepared to say at this moment that Fian could be Kelvin's or could be mine . All I would like to know ,how you could be sure but you're saying that we didn't even have sex together, which is plain ridiculous , at the time he was conceived
S_ Not at that particular time . How do you think I am so sure . Look,you know, you're a male while I'm female,Paul,there's the difference . We know the difference, OK,we know about when we are fertile our cycle etc . And so I happen to know,I wasn't sure about Leafe,um but um I know,that I know that she was yours ,right . By cycles ant times of the month and all those sorts of things
P_ You .. I can't believe that you can be that accurate
S_ Um excuse me ,but it can be extremely accurate,you're taking the usual male view that women can't possibly know . And I'm sorry but women can possibly know like I know when I was expecting twins,or any doctor can ..
P_ You reckon you can tie it down to plus or minus a day or so
S_ I can actually tie it down to a time,I can actually tie it down to a particular incident in both cases,yes I can,and I think you can find most women can do that
P_ Well I'll take advice on this,I've never heard of this before
S_ Paul what you think,what will you achieve by this um
P_ I'm going to hang up this phone now,I don't want you phoning again
S_ Paul,I tell you if you cause my son trouble,my son will destroy you, not me,my son . You've not met my son ,you've not been in contact with him
P_ No
S_ Have you
P_ No
S_ My son is a very different kettle of fish from Leafe and I advice you to be aware ,you're dealing with a,if you mix with him you're dealing with an extremely [?] eighteen-year-old . He doesn't suffer fools gladly and you will be in a whole bundle of trouble if you try and contact him . I can assure you not from me but from him
P_ OK,fair enough
P_ He is not Leafe,Leafe feels sorry for people,Leafe gets involved,Leafe goes off on her own little ways . Fian is not your son,number one . I don't know how much plainer I can make it than that,he isn't your son . If you get in contact with him you will have a whole bunch of trouble . Fian does not like people who cross him .
P_ Fair enough
S_ He's a business man in his own little right . He's only 18 and has just made Ł1000 on a venue he's just organised,he's off to India to do voluntary work, he's just done his "A" levels ,he's projected 3 "A" "A" levels,and that's in art subjects ,not pissey fucking science subjects which any moron ,if he put his mind to it ...
P_ Look I'm going to put the phone down ,there's no point in talking to you any more ..

Copy of this (part) sound recording 560K

[Compare this reference to "A" level grades to the testimony of FG Dawson on the second file of this series on the internet . This woman in dissociation has total unawareness (fugue/amnesia) for the content of her speech and actions in this "alter personality" . When reference to such conversations get back to her the only way she can react to them is that this info has come by subterfuge . The other way of dealing with it is saying it is rumour with absolutely no awareness that she is the rumour monger . Back when I lived with her I once jokingly said I had bugged the house as the reason I knew something or other that I was not supposed to know -it was she who had told me . Stella Constant immediately latched on to this as explanation and however much I denied having done any bugging made no jot of difference . In her mind that was the explanation . ]
S_ Look come on you're dealing with a whole different ballgame mate,OK, and you want to be really careful
P_ OK I'm putting the phone down now
S_ I'll tell you another thing,you have no legal right to Fian or Leafe come to that . You are dependent on their good will and I should listen to what _ told you about the whole situation .
P_ Yes I did it was quite interesting
S_ Good,I'm glad that you did because you should do because you're acting so selfishly . All you can think of is your hatred for me which has obviously sustained you through the years . Leafe has said that you have tried to manipulate me .. her to hate me . And of course it just won't wash . Another thing she knows what I'm about and you are a stranger and you don't realise it but you've picked the wrong sort of tack . I don't know why you hate me so much. OK,I was a pain in the arse when I was younger,I'll acknowledge that, I recognise that,but why do you have to do this . I just don't understand it Paul . I just don't understand it ,rally I don't
P_ OK you've had your say now is that all?
S_ Why are you doing this ,do tell me
P_ I'd just like the record go straight that's all
S_ But it isn't straight is it
P_ No I know it's not
S_ But it .. what your saying to my daughter isn't straight ,it's a biased view of how I was then . But that isn't how I've been since .
P_ I've no idea what you're like now
S_ And it's a biased view anyway,don't you see . She said that you get really upset when she stands up for you .. for me . Why do you do that . Don't you want her to have a good mother ,don't you want her to have a good relationship with her mother because she does,don't you want her to . Do you want her to hate me or something because she's not going to Paul,just to satisfy you,don't you understand . I don't hate you or anything,I just don't in spite of all the trouble that you've been causing my family . I don't hate you . I just actually am more concerned about you and Leafe's very much like this about me that she's concerned about you . But if you .. I'm warning you Paul,if you mix with Fian he's not like me and he's not like Leafe,he will destroy you love,he really will and I mean that as afriendly warning,I don't mean,beacause he will
P_ Fair enogh
S_ You know he can be an absolute little shit and is extremely fly . I've seen him reduce a grown adult to tears,yeah,I'm not sure whether real tears but a very very,you know,sussed young man and he won't take ... and I'm warning to protect yourself . Why do you hate me so much,why do you, because you do don't you
P_ As far as I am concerned I don't but
S_ But you do Paul
P_ But I can see how it can be interpretted ..
S_ You do see how it can be interpretted well that's a start then . Leafe said to me and I've never said anything to her about you other than,you know,I've always been very neutral about you because I thought that was the best thing,right
P_ Well I can damn myself,that's no trouble,I often do
S_ No I have,I think that you will find ,that Leafe will have said to you that .. that I've always been neutral and haven't said anything bad about you . Would you disagree with that?
P_ Well she hasn't really said much about it anyway
S_ Well that's right because there hasn't been a lot to say because I've been neutral about you . I haven't said a lot of things because that was our personal relationship,it was very difficult but,I don't want to put that on her,you see what I mean?
P_ Well yes
S_ But you haven't done that ,have you,you've thought it all in how much angst I gave you and all of this stuff and as far as she sees it is you're trying to turn her against me .
P_ You're the social worker,you must be familiar with these situations before .
S_ I am
P_ I mean,that's what's bound to happen isn't it
S_ No it's not bound to happen . Not if people have good will . If people have concern about what is happening,they really are
P_ I've had 20 years to come to terms with it
S_ Yes it is,it's a very long time ago,Paul . That's what I'm trying to say to you ,why
P_ There is some things you don't forget
S_ I know it was difficult but I was just a young ,very young,messed-up woman then . I'm very different now . I was very different ...
P_ Well,going by this phonecall I find that surprising
S_ Paul,I'm worried about my children
P_ That's fair enough ,yes
S_ I get a phone call from one of my friends which has concerned me a lot ,what do you expect . What do you expect really um
P_ OK is that all
S_ No I just want to know why you hate me
P_ I don't
S_ You do,you do Paul
P_ How can I prove that I don't hate you then
S_ Er,by not trying to make Leafe hate me,not that you're succeeding,which is making her unhappy . By not upsetting my child who is taking his "A" levels,he's got a good future in front of him,I don't want that messed up
P_ I've told Leafe,I'm not going to contact him because Leafe requested me not to and I'll do anything she says . I can say that to you
S_ Well good,Leafe knows that I'm her mother and I can assure you that's reasonable isn't it
P_ You don't mind odd characters in pubs bringing up strange tittle-tattle from the past .
S_ What odd characters in pubs . I haven't met any recently . What odd characters have you come across
P_ Well,It doesn't really apply in my case but ...
S_ What are you talking about
P_ I'm talking about this Michael character in Salisbury somewhere

[According to Leafe this "Michael" had taken her aside in a pub and told her something about her paternity being not what she was led to believe . Notice all mention of this "Michael " character were absent from all the prosecution statements . I now know that my daughter is a proven liar (supposed letters to hotels in Leicester and ficticious credit history checks on her in her police statement) . It is even more firmly now my conjecture that Leafe fabricated this informant to disguise the real informant being one of her family friends . There were 9 people I recently contacted who were aware of the questionable paternity of Fian and Leafe in the mid 70s . Only 2 of these were of the opinion that only Kelvin could be Fian's father . Both had continuing contact with this Salisbury family . One was living in Southampton around the time Leafe was conceived but was living in the New Forest when Fian was conceived and returned to Southampton in about 1979 . The other person was the one who aided and abetted S . M. Constant on the night of the window smashing . This was the same person who had identified to me the serious psychiatric episode of the father of S . M. Constant,Michael Ellis CONSTANT, at Heron Wood in Middle Woodford ,Wiltshire in 1984 . I would consider it is just as likely for her to relay potentially devastating information back the other way,probably taking some sort of pleasure in doing so in the process]

S_ It's a bit strange Leafe and I talked it through and I haven't a clue . It's just one of those things it will always be a mystery . Well yes it's best not to worry about it unless he causes some trouble .
P_ Exactly,I mean,whoever this bloke is ,obviously knew what was going on 20 years ago and more to the point recognises Leafe and knows how to contact her in the present
S_ It's very very odd that he knows . It's certainly nobody I know of . I did know a Michael but it isn't him . It's very very few people that know of her paternity .
P_ I mean if he is someone of a dubious nature he is probably using a false name anyway
S_ Well I can't imagine,I just don't know . Leafe was getting very worried,very panicky about it . Well I don't know who it is but if it is someone,then it's one of a few number of people because very few people actually know
P_ You do see my point
S_ If it is one of those people then they're playing silly games and best just not to take any notice of it .
P_ Yes but there's people like that,take pleasure in doing that sort of thing
S_ Oh yeah,obviously the guy did take pleasure ,you know . I actually went to the pub the night after it happened to see if I could catch him because I was concerned
P_ But you see my point ,if he knows what was going on then and recognises Leafe and presumably he knew what happened in Fian's case . Whether he knows anything much about it or not I don't know .
S_ But it's always been very straightforward where Fian is concerned as no one as far as I am concerned ,nobody has ever been told about you because I knew
P_ Well it's strange you told me the opposite 20 years ago
S_ No I didn't
P_ Sort of saying things like he's got my nose and things like that
S_ No I didn't ,Paul,come on you know I didn't . That was Leafe I did . and you actually because knew she was your's and you just sort of said "oh she doesn't look a bit like Paul" . And me thinking ,crap . I knew she is ,the same way I know . You're just a man . What would you know about these things anyway etc . Take it from me Paul,if Fian was yours you would know about it
P_ Well OK . I'll leave it at that for the moment but I'm not convinced
S_ Well take my word for it
P_ No,I won't take your word for it but I won't be doing anything precipitously
S_ Why not
P_ I never did then I can't see any reason to believe you now
S_ Paul ,I may have been fucked-up but essentially although I may have told lies I also essentially always told the truth
P_ Yeah,how to pick one from t'other . If someone lies you've got to be dubious about anything they say
S_ I may have lied about not important things but I usually told the truth about the important things
P_ I would have thought it was the other way round but never mind
S_ Ur,you realy do hate me ,don't you,you really do
P_ No,just remembering back ,that's all
S_ Leafe's right,Leafe's right you do hate me . Why,It's such a long time ago ,why do you still hate me .
P_ Well as far as I am concerned I don't but er ..
S_ I think well,OK,you say that ,but I'm just saying that a person is not what they say but what they do . Does that make sense
P_ I'm not going to get into philosophy at this time of night ,at one o'clock in the morning .
S_ Now don't run away . You know what I'm saying that you and all the things you have done since you've been in contact with Leafe has been about getting one over on me
P_ I very much doubt it,I doubt it,but never mind
S_ I think you have . It's been extremely unpleasant . You got stroppy with Leafe when she stood up for me you know ,yes
P_ It's to be expected really in the circumstances
S_ Why,no it's not to be expected . Why can't you just be adult about this . Well,Paul,this happened 25 years ago
P_ I'm saying one thing and you're saying another
S_ My main concern now should be the children yes,yes . Why what's so wrong with that . What's so wrong with being adult about it,eh
P_ I've told you I am not going to contact Fian in the forseeable future and leave it at that
S_ I am concerned what is going on in your head,you know . I was fond of you one time and I worry about the effect you seem to have had on you that you hate me so much P_No
S_ Paul,you think about it ..... [personal reminisces] ...
P_ You still deny saying at one point that Kelvin was infertile
S_ Yes I deny that,yes I do
P_ That was one thing I specifically remember you saying
S_ Kelvin .. when I was drunk I may have said all kinds of things,whether or not they were true or not ,of course,I cannot deny absolutely but ..
P_ It would have been nice counteracting this
S_ Listen,I don't remember,I may have said all kinds of outrageous things but I was so fucked-up,this made a lot of sense to me,doesn't mean,doesn't mean that it was right and it isn't true ,let me tell you that now
P_ You told me this but you never retracted it so I had no reason to disbelieve it
[They as a couple had no children for 23 years until 1994 when it was technically possible via ICSI (Intra Cyto-Plasmid Sperm Injection) for someone almost 100 per cent infertile to father children. There is the matter of who is the father of this woman's twins . The probabiliy of having twins via the ICSI procedure ,according to a recent report is 31 per cent . I had assumed this couple had paid their 7000 pounds or so for ICSI but a friend of mine came up with another scenario . If John Stoddart were the father of these twins then it would explain his sudden intrusion into all this - I had not thought of this possibility .]
S_ All I can say to you is I don't remember ever having said that
P_ You said he had had tests in hospital and come back as ..
S_ I only have your word for it as I don't remember
P_ But er,but er
S_ But he isn't ,Paul,OK . I don't know why I should believe what you say now, assuming you're not drunk at the moment . You know a lot of time has gone by and comeon Paul,why should I believe you for that matter
P_ Exactly
S_ Exactly,you seem to have done nothing except try to cause trouble between my daughter and I since you've got to know her . It's hardly been a pleasant experience for her
P_ It's not been a pleasant experience for me,it's not been pleasant for you
S_ Er
P_ Does Kelvin know all this yet
S_ What
P_ Are you going to tell Kelvin about this
S_ He's heard something about this of course . I'm bound by what Leafe has said or else not certain about it
P_ About the last year
[The following italicised speech, is in a different voice, that makes my flesh creep when I hear it ,it is probably one of the MPD characters coming to the fore . Jolting back to the usual voice when I say I will cancel the call . Also a picture of the eyes of someone not connected with this story that captures the appearance in this state - scary stuff]
eyes

S_ Are you trying to cause more trouble ,Paul
P_ No,I just hope you told him
S_ Revenge is sweet isn't it mm . You've used my daughter ,you're not a bit interested in her at all,are you,you're not a bit interested . You've just leant on it as a good excuse to have a go at making me pay for for all ...
P_ I'm going to put the phone down ,now,OK
S_ Well comeon Paul,be honest with yourself once in your life
P_ OK I'm going to put the phone down and don't call me again tonight . If you want to call me then phone me at a reasonable time in the evening not in the middle of the night
S_ Come on Paul you're never in during the day
P_ Not the day,the evening
S_ You're out at the pub aren't you
P_ You can phone me between 6 and 9 any evening of the week
S_ Well I have tried between 6 and 9 but can't get hold of you
P_ Well you must have been dialling the wrong number . That's all . OK I'm puting the phone down now
S_ I think you should think about what I've been saying . A wish for revenge is not a very good way to approach children
P_ I'm putting the phone down,OK
S_ Don't you think you should be concentrating on is getting to know Leafe
P_ OK,I'm putting the phone down
End of call
BT CLI "Telephone number 01722 412 ... called at 00 . 38 hours"

So to sum up yet another non conversation with this bloody woman that gets absolutely nowhere

Email by ( removing 4 of the 5 dots )
or email Paul Nutteing ,remove all but one dot
Or a message on usenet group uk.legal has got to me recently a couple of times.

If you have found this file in an archive then put keyword of "nutteing" in a search engine to find an updated version,also some sites do not support the .wav sound files.

For anyone with further interest in this story then copies of the affidavits, documentary evidence,photos or even taped phone calls,used as evidence,could be made available.Obviously,outside a court environment,some identifying features would have to be deleted.

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Oh What a Tangled Web We Weave 70K

All the actual witness statements for the forthcoming trial can be found by clicking here Pre-Trial Witness Statements and evidence 150K

Continuation of the sorry tale ,nutteing2 The Saga Continues ,nutteing3

Folie ŕ Deux,Dissociation and Crime 40K ,nutteing4

Setting-up Mirror Sites ,nutteing6