And Now For Something Completely Different

If you found this file in an archive then put keyword "nutteing0" in a search engine to find a live / recent version

RĘsumĘ of the whole Saga

The conspiracy starts withg a woman in her early twenties deparately wanting a baby but her male partner is infertile . She hitches up with me and for good measure she sleeps around and soon becomes pregnant . She leaves me long before the birth so she and her real beloved can perjurously register the birth of her daughter with him as the father . Later,I like a fool plead to this woman for her and her daughter to return to me . This she does but returns to sleeping around with renewed vigour and promptly becomes pregnant again . Once again she leaves me but this time her soulmate decided not to perjure himself again so the boy is registered illegitimate. Years pass by and the woman becomes a social worker . In 1996 her daughter now aged 19 by means still not divulged discovers my identity and contacts me as her father based on very spurious evidence . This is considered OK but me contacting my son with strong corroborative evidence is considered outragious. The social worker mother decides the only way to sway me is to come over to Hampshire and in psychotic rage go on a thousand pound window smashing spree. In the process of sending written notice to this woman about taking her to small claims court for compensation I am arrested for harassment . In the intervening time this social worker had conspired with one of her managers to submit a forged letter plus other proveably perjurous statements about me to the police . For good measure most of the rest of her extended family also make perjurous or rich statements to the police . Right from the first court appearance the CPS would not supply the evidence. Just before automatic abuse of process (6 months delay) the CPS finally send me "notice of discontinuance" of the ridiculous case against me . But then the director of social services decided to continue to make threats to prosecute me . For an unfathomable reason this family wanted me to go public with the story, reinforced by their wish to take it all to court . So here in this file and associated files is the whole bizarre story firmly placed in the public domain .

This first file is copied from my cousin's site for continuity and other feedback
This is an introduction to a file i agreed to put on my site. The story was experienced and written up by a cousin of mine Paul Nutteing. I got involved with his dispute because he thought as i had internet access that i might be able to do some medical research. Paul has a double paternity dispute. He is trying to get the whole sorry tale published and in the meantime i have put his file on my site. I don't know his reasons for publishing ,perhaps a mixture of catharsis,leverage,exorcism and revenge. It is an unbelievable story ,i've never come across anything like it. If it was the script for some soap-opera story-line it would be laughed off stage as just too implausible. It is probably suited to the internet as it would appear to be one hell of a conspiracy. If he manages to get the thing published conventionally I will probably remove it from my site. If anyone could put in any input concerning the psychology / psychiatric elements we would be interested in hearing from.
If there is anyone outside the UK willing to put Paul's file (65K) on a ISP outside of the UK (even just as a latent file) could they e-mail me. I have seen all his documentary evidence and have no reason to disbelieve him when he says he has received nothing in the way of counter evidence from the woman involved. If anyone reads the following file and recognises the people involved and can send me any counter evidence i can review having his file on my site. Be warned it is a very sorry tale of the human condition and sensitive souls should not click on these files.
Oh What a Tangled Web We Weave 70K

All the actual witness statements for the forthcoming trial can be found by clicking here Pre-Trial Witness Statements and evidence 150K

Continuation of the sorry tale ,nutteing2 The Saga Continues ,nutteing3

Folie Á Deux,Dissociation and Crime 40K ,nutteing4

Setting-up Mirror Sites ,nutteing6

DNA profiles and their implications , dnapr , nutteingd

Some feedback

Paul Nutteing's story adds a very unusual and interesting twist to the site. That's some story! Vaguely reminds me of a former wife. Paul has my empathy. One suggestion, ask Paul to put a summary of the story first.
It will hook more readers into reading the tomb. K.M.

I live in Wilts and offer to bang a few heads together. P.G.

Sounds a typical socal worker to little old jaundiced me. J.D

Stunned,gobsmacked!! Ive never read anything like it. HollyWood would have a fieldday with a story like that. No second thoughts too f***ing solid for them. S.T.

I read your cousin's account of his trials and tribulations. Quite the mesmerizing piece! I'd say it actually sounds all the TOO plausible..! Regarding blame: a lot of what people believe boils down to who gets to them first, eh? J.J.

Am I on the same planet as all these ...P.D.

We are 2 teenagres in Bristol. Both our parents are blood doners and we know our father cant be our father. How do we get our birth certfcates.

A letter from an eminent QC about another matter in Wiltshire

...couldn't help being distracted by Paul's saga (especially as a keen student of society and the human mind); I can only offer him luck as justice is so rarely served....TR,London

...lecturer in - at - .I am enquiring as to permission to use the transcript of record of interview by Salisbury Police on 9/9/2000 as an example of -.I would like to verify the following *

Read Paul's story, your comments. I am researching injustices for a forthcoming publication, and intend to attend Salisbury Mags on the 26th Feb 10am ,2001- please advise if it get adjourned. D.T.

From Naomi in London 30 Jan 2001 I am very sorry to see you have been helping Mr. Paul Nutteing to publish his story on the internet. The reason I am sorry is that you have been completely fooled by this man. Mr. Nutteing has haunted my life for nearly 3 years and has caused myself and my family no end of heartache. The reason no one has replied to his letters is because on receipt we tear them up. The reason I know this is because I am his daughter (only biologically)!. I curse the very day I ever picked up the phone to contact him, I can not believe I am related to such a destructive person. Once upon a time I felt sorry for him but now I really think he needs help not encouragement. He remembers my mum as she was 20 years ago, however my mum is the most wonderful women, wife and mother who had a wild time in the 70's- what's wrong with that? In my mind my mum has done nothing wrong and everything that Paul has said is a twisted version of the truth. We are a very normal, loving, strong family and you can tell Paul from me all his interfering has just made us stronger! I hope you realize that Mr. Nutteing is being taken to court by ourselves, Salisbury Social Services and other people that he has pestered over the years.
Please who ever you are talk some sense into him.

In reply to Leafe, I can only repeat what I say above that come up with counter evidence ,not hearsay, and I will review having Paul's file on my site.
I have seen 4 affidavits from independent people not family or friends that show that your mother and Paul were living together between June 1977 and June 1978 when she was 4 months pregnant with your brother. These people ,including even the one in Surrey,were very wary about making these affidavits being concerned that this "most wonderful woman" would smash their windows also. There is dated photographic evidence and your mother's name with Paul's in an archived voter's list all pukka evidence. I have not seen any evidence admissable in court that your brother and the man who raised you are related.
Your biological father could not live with such an overtly promiscuous woman. At least you know who your father was. In the last year two more men have come out of the woodwork to join the growing list of men your mother was having such a "wild time " with. Malliciously prosecuting someone just to disguise this promiscuous behaviour is not the purpose of law. Luckily English law takes more notice of independent testimony and hard evidence than uncorroborated hearsay. However many people keep repeating the same nonsense hearsay emanating from such a tainted source does not make it evidence.
Paul has done nothing wrong let alone illegal. His actions have been no different to what junk mailers do perfectly legally to millions of people daily.
His inoffensive and informative letters were accepted happily by everyone. Any "mental anguish" that you lot have played up is purely a result of that corrupt and dangerous mother of yours trying to maintain a fiction over the origins of your brother. I've been told to say- As soon as a real Batman, fighting corruption, comes along you side with the Cat Woman.

Dear Paul,
I sympathise with you and with everything you have had to endure. I find myself in a similar predicament. More often than not, the Police and legal system only worsen the problem. I have been arrested and have received a Solicitors letter warning, for Harassement. Only because I am trying to have contact with my 2 year daughter. My ex. is preventing access and forcing me to go through a Solicitor, without good cause. (A spiteful act only) Her 18 yr old son to another man apparently pulls her strings. Your description of Stella is uncanny and very similar to my ex.
Best Wishes, -,England

Has your son inherited your analytic legal brain? JW

I read your site and well done for exposing the SS. Someone is doing the same in Cambridgeshire:\ss_web\complaints.htm Regards B

From the flying vet
I woould be greatful if my site is linked with yours asap as there is a serious deterioration in the standards within court. and people should be warned!!!!!
happy new year mjk

Dear Mr Nutteing I came across your site quite by accident some time ago while searching 'corrupt social workers'. I have recently been reminded of you because the families that I have been supporting have had some similar experiences to yourself.
I first got involved when I offered to give some - - - and then felt compelled to help on a more regular basis because what I was hearing and experiencing at first hand was corruption at its worst. An internet site has been set up by a group of people who have been affected by Social Services. The editor and manager of the site are serialising the case that I am supporting at present. The main social worker is a woman called - - aka - . Although she is an evil conniving woman she did not act on her own. We have been told that the whole of Northampton - - were implicated including - . The collusion has also extended to the police and the judiciary.
At the moment we are trying to locate the address of - -. The problem is the ............By coincidence I was looking at your info on how to produce mirror sites when ............

What happened as a resulyt of the coroner and police reopening the 25 year old murder of Mervyn Clarke?! ?! pt

Having had personal experience with "Multiple Personality Disorder" with an ex-partner (caused by 1 years repeated sexual abuse at age 6 by a "friend " of the family ) who incidently is now a Doctor of Sociology - it was the first time I have had to let go of "rational expectation". A frightingly common condition in women, and one I suspect the judiciary system will keep well at arm's length wherever possible - I can sincerely commiserate,but can say no more. M

hi. my names m and i am in my third year of a ba honours degree in -. This in turn requires a dissertation related to my practice. Having recently read "The Gates of Janus" by convicted serial killer Ian Brady i intend to write about the naive public nature towards the pyschotic and psycopathic, working around the terms of 'folie a deux'. Therefore i would be most grateful for any information about the subject that you feel you can lend. yours respectfully M

A bizarre and disturbing story! It would help if you put a brief resumĘ of it at the beginning. JT

I saw a TV programme 19 Nov 02 on ch5 where there was report of prosecution of some US bank raiders. The main forensic evidence was 35mm negatives of the robber instead of usual video tape images. They could analyse the seem pattern of the jeans worn by the robber ,captured on camera, compared to the jeans found at suspect's house. The next day found your file with your own forensic analysis to date old photographs. Congratulations on such a thorough investigation, it equalled the FBI jeans investigation I had seen the day before. From C,Edinburgh.

from Many thanks for your email and for the tip over pdf files! I suggest - in your circumstances - you take a look at the following site;

I don't even know where to start - don't even know why I'm mailing ;) Hi Paul, I'm L.. I admire you using your free speech online as I do the same - I also hate social workers because I grew up in care!! But aren't you hurting your children? Aren't you afraid of ending up a bitter lonely old man?? Biology is only part of being a parent - A parent is someone who looks after their children & protects them from harm!! I agree you have a case but there must be a way to do it without hurting everyone - have you tried bringing a private prosecution or just putting the facts of the case up as it would be presented in court .... Get an online petition & advertise your site - get the public working for you!! Like I said, I have like free speech!! L

I was looking at and saw your message regarding a story of strange goings-on in Salisbury. What's it all about? I'm a trainee journalist who's on the look-out for stories around Salisbury. Could you help?

U R a f**king nutcase ...JC Tattersall

Remind me not to go agin ye..........GC

I feel privileged to have to have read your true crime story. Cant help but wonder what the final chapter will be ,V ,Montreal

BTW most engineers in my branch agree that Paul was improperly treated from his "ex" all the way to the authorities. But then us techno-nerds mostly think alike. If he is facing legal fees there should be at least a fund drive to help him by listing it in on the server for a possible donation. Even a 1 or 5 bill would help. - CF
interesting.... and nice to see the net used in this way.... see the "husband" families of portland have parallels to your case... keep up the good work.............B Hey dude, why are you constantly slagging social workers off? Your allegations are unfounded. Not all social workers are like you state. Maybe you have had some bad experiences but slagging a profession off on a public newsgroup makes it look as though your on a vendetta quest? If you have a problem with a particular social worker or department then take it up with them but don't talk as though you know that social workers are bad because you don't! - JA

Social services will do nothing about a very dangerous nest of social workers in Salisbury. That includes the new director and the local govt ombudsman. All my evidence is on or nutteing2 in a search engine
Where is your evidence that my allegations are unfounded.? I am honourable to put it all in the public domain. You sound the typical social worker spouting off based on opinion and prejudice without any inspection or research of evidence. Just because you find it uncomfortable does not mean it is unfounded. Paul Paul/
I have been raising questions on DNA profiling with my MP and with the FSS since 1997 when I was made to give a sample by a process that involved token force. It is extremely difficult to get specific answers about the DNA database. Nonetheless I continue my campaign because, as I think you suggest in your topic, confidence in this technique runs at an irrationally high level. I would dearly like to know what statisticians may learn from the two million records on the suspect database (a useful little government publication might be the answer). You have trawled successfully for reports of cases in which people were wrongly suspected as a result of DNA profile matches. I was unaware of any of these cases, so I am most grateful for the work you have done.
Good luck!

I have read your site with interest, and put a link to it on mine. I found it while searcing for info on the SS. We have had 18 months of purgatory because of them, and it goes on. We cannot believe just how devious etc they are. They got everything wrong at the beginning, but they will not admit their mistakes. Best of luck with your fight. - B

I read your site with interest. Absolutely fascinating stuff. Just thought that I'd quickly point out what I think may be a small mis-calculation on your behalf. (I haven't near your complicated calculations and will accept them on faith but I am aware that /any /minor mis-calculation may be used against you. -R
There was in fact no error so no point in repeating it here.

Hello Paul, I saw your website and see that you have listed the many twists and turns of the problems you have been having. You seem to have kept a detailed diary of the transgressions you have encountered (just as I have in my own case) but from what I read, it has unfortunately not helped you to be particularly in getting the truth of your case over to others. In my situation I have found public servants ABSOLUTELY lying though their teeth in order to defend themselves from the application of justice. And I too have thought about going "public" in a similar way to your website. I'm in a rather different situation (to do with my hospital and social services) although my dealings with public services and social support have been astonishing in the amount of mistruth involved. What surprises me about your case is that neither the national nor presumably your local press have taken up your story. You seem to have mirrored and linked and referenced your site quite extensively and maybe after a while this exposure makes your situation become "old news" and part of the status quo. Could this possible overexposure be the reason the media are not enthusiastic? Have you experienced pressure to change your ISP/web hosting facility or even to change a domain name? I would be interested in hearing about your thoughts so I can repeat the useful things and leave out the problems. If it's easier than writing then maybe you would prefer to speak on the phone? Best, S

I am stunned by your DNA info! Several facts gives cause for concern despite his layman status.
1. A dyslexic official letter
2. The variation in lab comparisons
3. False Positives
Also unless one is aware of a "case" one can't get any information on one self!
I don't understand most of it but the fact he puts detractor statements in are at least honest.
The fact that people are not really publicly looking at the possible issues is more than worrying?

But people are being convicted on unshakable DNA evidence, sounds shakey to me.
Seems he was DNAd so surely thats understandable. And if he is concerned about the acuracy of clerical work and DNA testing then he is surely worried he could be wrongly matched in a crime case. He better have a concrete alibi for the rest of his life now.
- D.H.

Good for you in exposing these malicious and evil jobs-worth's for what they are. .................. Unfortunately I cannot find a record of John Barton Stoddart on UK Info. This is nothing new, as many of them have their names removed from the Electoral Register as they are scared they will be chinned for their corrupt practices if found. I'd be VERY interested to know what your interest is in all this. I too have been the victim of lying SS people and would be very happy to help. SM

> well said Kisrsty and the best of luck in your chosen profession. As an > approved social worker, I can recommend social work as a brilliant, > rewarding and challenging career. Paul Nutteing states he has been a "unpaid > social worker" and was "so brilliant at it" He appears overtly obsessed in > his crusade of these individuals and it is to subjective a viewpoint to be > taken seriously. > You sound like you will make a fine social worker Kirsty and I wish you well > in whichever sphere of the profession you choose. > We will always encounter people like Paul, it goes with the job, but never > forget, we can and do make a significant and positive difference in our > interventions. Paul would do well to recognise that, but alas, I think he is > a lost cause on that one
You must be a social worker . Manufacturing evidence must be endemic at all levels of social work. I have searched my file cache and usenet archives for my use of the phrase "so brilliant at it" If you wish to paraphrase my statement of
I have many other interests and pursuits outside of exposing corruption in social services. Including dozens of glowing unsolicited testimonials from people I've very much helped in my social work capacity.
End Quote
so brilliant at it
then state it is paraphrased. In my niche area of social work I have received one brick-bat but dozens of plaudits. I suspect in main stream social work it is nearer the opposite. is an unmoderated ,no registration,usenet group devoted to aspects of social work - so my posts are on topic. If yourself or others are not tough enough to take the rough and tumble of unmoderated groups then you are probably not tough enough to slough-off the sticks and stones of large areas of main-stream social-work.

Reply to AB
I cannot comment about other sites "grievance procedures" . The following is mine just concerning the social workers [ husband, Kelvin Derrick DAWSON] and Stella Maria CONSTANT [social worker] come up with independent evidence that they were living together between January and May 1978 to show they did not commit perjury in police witness statements [without this perjury the police would have ignored the "complaint" in all likelihood] . John Barton STODDART,South Wilts area manager of Wilts social services,shows that letter JBS1 is my writing and my signature. Raymond Leonard JONES aka Dr Ray JONES demonstrates he is competent to be director of Wiltshire Social Services or even just Head of Adult and Community Services. Specifically he shows that he obtained forensically admissible evidence from all available sources before trying to bring in the police and CPS. Hardly very onerous. This material has been in the public domain since Jan 2000 with Wilts Social services fully ( up to director level) in the know from June 2000. I have had no evidence ,no letter ,no solicitor's letter relating to any of this material. I have to assume the current director an Annie Hudson is in on the conspiracy/conspiracy of silence.
If I was a director of social services and I was informed that one of my employees ,in children and family section,had been arrested,charged and prosecuted for kicking-in a huge plate glass window, then this would be my priority. Ignore all the he says/she says stuff and go to independent sources. The window smashing was witnessed by a neighbour who went out in the monsoon-like rain and confronted the woman. The witness in her own words used the term "psychotic woman" and she volunteered a statement to Hampshire Police. This witness,full name and address known to myself, and Wilts SS aware of. But no one from SS has ever contacted this witness. As far as I am aware dangerous psychotic Stella Maria CONSTANT is still working with children in the Salisbury area. She had a serious personality disorder 25 years ago and since then it has emerged that her father was sectioned for a schizophrenic type condition. Again if I was director of SS - this woman has some other criminal record prior to the window smashing incident that Wilts CPS would not relay to my solicitor - I've no idea for what crime. The Local Government Ombudsman will not investigate matters in Wilts SS either so it is all down to me to publicise until someone does something in the public interest. Despite these corrupt bastards in Wilts SS being involved in twice having me arrested I have no criminal record or past or pending charges against me. It is classic prosecute the whistleblower.

Subject corrupt social worker . where do i stand on posting this guys information, taking into account it was sent in error via dpa 1998? i was going to write to him and appeal to his better nature and try to get him to tell the truth and drop the real villain in it, ie: the principle on the day, ive also got human rights and they are persueing matters as well as the childs human rights were breached, the equality commission is also looking into taking a case due to disability discrimination on the day due to them not disclosing fact of care order to police, over the weekend im typing up a full incidence of all matters, if you wish il forward you a copy of it, S

Dear Paul, I have seen your website and found it very interesting indeed. You will see from the correspondence below that the authorities have given me some shit also. But you like me, are prepared to take the bastards on. I appreciate you for standing up for your rights, and in doing so you are standing up for the rights of everyone else also. Keep it up my friend. The only way, as you said, is to disgrace the scumbags in public - like you are doing. I have been a secret fan of yours for a long time, as I always like your postings on Google exposing the corruption, and putting down the smart arses, who I suspect are mostly government agents; trying to make it look good. You and I know the lengths they will go to, to destroy a person. Look at Arnold Lowe McCardle murdered in Carstairs State Hospital to cover up the corruption in the Police and the courts, which he was exposing. They got poor Andy before he had got any publicity, which would have protected him. The Internet is an almighty weapon against the bastards; make no mistake about it. -PC

New DNA testing technique (4 October,2006)
The often reclusive Forensic Science Service stepped into the spotlight last week to announce DNAboost. If this new technique will truly catch more criminals, not just more people, it should be welcomed by victims of crime.
As a layman in the esoteric game of genetics I wonder how honest the FSS has been in its claims for DNA testing. From what was published I gather that confused or incomplete profiles may possibly be resolved, a process that sounds to me less like analysis and more like image enhancement. Of course, anything added to or removed from captured data is corruption of the data and one must be very careful with the inferences one makes.
What about the often quoted 'one-in-a-billion chance' of a falsely incriminating match? I have never been able to ascertain what is meant by this claim. Surely the world is too small to establish it satisfactorily! Besides, violent crime often occurs within communities where people are likely to be more related than they are in the general population, thus giving a much greater chance of a false match.
The FSS compromises the right to fair trial by predisposing juries to convict on DNA evidence. It is time the FSS was challenged to base its public information upon fact rather than scientific or statistical surmise. - AT

And some indirect comments:
I then stumbled across this, which I have not digested yet. It's huge. I have to say that it reinforces what I suspected. There's no way after reading this that I would submit my DNA to a UK database.
DNA "finger prints" are far from unique, but there seems to be a popular belief that they are. So when all 59 million sets are on a UK data base who is going to bother to search the lot when they have a match in a few minutes. Certainly not the average lazy civil servant. The less the boys in blue have in MY file the better. - ST

Every generation thinks the technology that's around when they are is the best that's possible. In 20 or 30 years we'll probably look back and think DNA was pretty primitive. Have a read of - GW

From a serving police site
This chap has a somebody paranoid view but there is some interesting information there: -GA

He prefers the term 'maverick', and probably knows more about the abuse of DNA than you ever will. You would do well to pay attention, if you are interested in that. And if you are not - perhaps it's you who's the nutter! - George

No Tony he is not a nutter, .. usually posts to and has some quite interesting things to say about DNA. I do not try to understand them but he is taken seriously on by some folks if not the majority on there:-'s'

DNA profiling can't be wrong - it is foolproof as a first pointer.- E That's heavy reading, Eddie, but very interesting and more than a little unsettling. To think that an innocent man/woman can be accused because of their DNA profile, which can be compromised in so many ways (and so easily) puts the whole idea of a DNA database in the trash bin. - O

No such thing exists, statistics can "prove" nothing. See some of Mr nutteing's posts on DNA "proof by statistics". Read up on Mark Twain. - D

"A Home Office spokeswoman accepted that black men were disproportionately represented, but said figures on race were recorded differently in each case. DNA database figures were "based on the operational judgment of the arresting officer", whereas census figures on race were self-recorded. [...]"
So presumably the Home Office will be researching "ethnic marker" alleles to "scientifically" pigeon hole people racially instead.. See Paul Nutteing's articles for for an idea of how this is already being used, and the inaccuracies which can result. (

Interesting article to say the least. Your web page, , is even more interesting. I'll need to take more time and go over it in more detail. Having worked in forensic DNA analysis for a wee while, there's always problems with contamination in the lab...'J'

There's a chap who often posts in these parts, Paul Nutteing, who can document for you just how impossible it is to stop information being published. See his page at , which details his own learning in the course of trying to publicise something which he considers to be scandalous....'S'

I have spent a great deal of the last three days reading your web pages. The reason for this is because my _ is in prison for rapes he has for the last nine years maintained he never committed. I would point out that at the time NO DNA was ever sent to the forensic labs for checking, this was despite them requesting the DNA from _ police, on two occasions.
Last year when he finally came up to his parole hearing, _ police turn up and charge him with an other sexual assault that supposedly happened _ years ago. They say that they have DNA that matches his, this is despite the fact that he was out of the country at the time.
You have obviously done a great deal of digging and research into this subject, and I hope that you could help with this. I have sent some of your web pages to _ and he asks for me to contact you as he says that you make a lot of sense with your calculations and feels that you might be able to help him. Could you please telephone me in the first instance on _ _.

The cases you quote are enough to send shivers down the back of anyone with DNA samples stored for no apparently good reason. I suspect that barristers and judges have no real idea of the true possibility of false matches in such evidence and your website is a valuable resource on the dangers inherent in this technology. I thank you for your time and efforts in creating and maintaining it. As an aside have you ever been asked to help someone accused based on DNA evidence? 'DB'

In Reply to my comment
"No, I've not directly assisted in the defense of anyone charged via DNA profile. I have a scientific background but not in area directly applicable to forensic science"
I think a request will be inevitable, as your expertise is evident and will be very valuable to anyone falsely accused. Also
When a poster of Paul's stature expresses concern, people sit up & listen.

On the Weir and then ACPO announcement concerning the December 2007 embargo on the use of LCN
Merry Christmas, Paul. Isn't that case just what you asked Santa for? It seems to vindicate much of what you have been saying on here. Paul might have a footnote in the history books one day. Yes, a well-deserved pat on the back for you sir.

I wonder how long it will be before DNA evidence will prove to be unsafe in some convictions - 10, 15 or 20 years ? Go to and ask Paul Nutteing. Or just google for his posts. MF

Why is this material hidden away on an obscure Russian chat site? I am pleased to see that it is in the public domain but I suspect those who would benefit most would have great difficulty in finding it, let alone understanding it, in its present format. J

The subject of DNA crops up time and time again in and there are some questions that the government refuse to answer. One of the regulars has a page set up that the police are constantly trying to shut down, to the extent he now has a site hosted in Russia where the hosts only correspond in cyrillic russian (!)

Why don't you provide your programs in downloadable .TXT files or similar? It would be so much easier to get them and also there wouldn't be any line wrap problems. As it is, having the occasional horizontal line in the code doesn't help. Second question, is what to do with the program code? Most users won't have a clue about how to incorporate a VB or Macro into Office/Word. Though agreed that VB programmers would likely know how to use the VB code. You need to give Office users some nice simple step by step instructions on how to incorporate the Word macro. Otherwise your research is fascinating. Never thought of writing a book on it? Regards, R

BTW I loved the piece on DNA, damn scary. The golfing user-groups need to stay above the law. - A.H.

I think, even though I disagree with you, that you are highly intelligent. Your mathematical formulas and statistical programs are excellent. - EJ

i would be interested in your views on the non-consensual DNA analysis clauses and schedules in the Human Tissue Bill which seems to be set for its Third Reading in the House of Commons this week. "Human Tissue Bill destroys safeguards for DNA analysis without consent" - M

I don't expect it to do much good, but it kind of annoys me that he is so closed-minded about DNA testing >>>It seems to me that it's good to have gadflies and watchdogs, even if we dislike their position or degree of obsession. Even if they're partly or wholly in error. That's what keeps the field accountable. That's how junk science and fraudulence have been exposed. Such people at least make us take stock of our positions and think through our own logic and proof. After that, we can just ignore them, but I'm all for having those voices in our midst. - KR

Paul - A few weeks ago on Usenet you drew our attention to the report HC 370-I "Police Reform Fourth Report of Session 2004-05" [10 March 2005]. As I'm sure you know, this contains the following statement from the Director of Forensic Services in the Metropolitan Police, Mr Gary Pugh: 'I think Sir Alec Jeffreys was referring to the fact that we do not actually analyse the whole DNA molecule, we use a method in the UK and world-wide which looks at different sites of the molecule. Therefore, if you like, from a scientific perspective it is possible that the DNA profile for one individual could be the same as another. That is a remote possibility given that the statistics involve around one in a billion in terms of the likelihood of that." So the FSS believes that the chance of a collision between two randomly chosen profiles is about one in a billion. This means (you recall the thread about this on a year or two back] that the number of such collided profiles in the entire UK population is something approaching two million. I.e. there is something like a one in 30 probability that someone out there has the same DNA profile as me. Interesting number that seems to me neither very high nor very low. What do you think? - PM
1 in a billion is just a weasel phrase, the same as 1 in 37 million oft repeated in the 6 loci days, it is fudged down from the multiplied together allele frequencies figures of multi-billions for no other justifiable reason than it seems to be over-gilding the lily. I don't like to deal with off-the-planet figures but start from what is known The best figure I can come up with so far for the 10 loci NDNAD then first false match appearing in 280,000 and square-lawing above that. That is from the mid 1990s publishing of 10, 6 loci, matches in 6311. Simulating the criteria in about 6311 random profiles to give 3 matches and applying to the 10 loci situation gives about 1 in 280,000. Applying the square law then for a 2.7million NDNAD database ( 2.7/0.28 )^2 = about 90 false matches. Of the remaining , otherwise arbitrarily assigned because they did not divulge, 7 in 10 matches due to use-of-alias factor should remain constant whether 6 loci or 10 loci. So if 7 of those 10 were duplicates from use of aliases then 7 in 6311 scales to 3,000 in 2.7m in the NDNAD these days. Not the slightest clamour about that from the criminal justice fraternity. Those first false matches are for people , like myself with all common alleles.

hi paul. an interesting site and it doesnt surprise me one little bit. touch of Dr Skuse about dna that the public isnt aware of yet. It is a trick of the powers that be to convince the gullible public so that they remain in authority. there is so much scrutiny of their work that dna cannot be opposed except with enormous expense like in the OJ Simpson trial for example. - N

Hola amigo ! This P_ a 14% er in Madrid , Spain. I read your " small diversion " ....... First , a brotherly hug from a poor fool who was bitten by a bad black snake from Ghana !

By a lot of what you say, how do you know so much, did you go to university and study this or is it just by chance. I have a strong interest in statistics myself and my daughter is a prof in stats. having studied with prof _ of the FRS at Oxford. - T

Can you Help, or direct me to someone who can. I have a child of 10, her father is malasian chinese. I am not. She looks like him and has the birhmark common to chinese babies. I was only seeing him. Testing was done and it excluded him. I cannot get a chain of custody from the lab. They then dragged my ex-husband into this. He is not someone I was seeing. I was in the middle of divorcing him. He is not chinese. They sent me to a different lab for testing. I don't mind, I have nothing to hide. IT CAME BACK INCLUDING HIM! I am now furious. The lab apparently was developed by the same fellow who did the first test. They are all apparently unregulated. No way to get information, even the "accreditation" organization does not fall under the freedom of information act. In 1997, they claim to the office of the ombudsman that they are accredited by american and canadian organizations, and they use photo I.D and a chain of custody. Now they insist they have no chain of custody, they use something better. Won't say what. And they now do not know of any accrediting agencies for dna testing facilities. I am going nowwhere anyway, until I can find something to help me break the strangle hold these facilities have on the legal system. I am being slandered by them. Called every form of crazy, dangereous, not well etc. My child will be asking soon about this man who is her father. I am certain that this is going to hurt her. If you can help before this happens, I would be forever grateful. Thank You S
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Some background material
This relates to a condition that certainly affected one member of the family and maybe a few others so not known whether genetic. Its a shame this medical knowledge was not known to our family decades ago as it would have ameliorated some family problems but at least future generations are now aware. Details of this research which does have some stuff of general interest on how a layman can do medical research using the internet and published medical technical journals is on Dyschondrosteosis


Log of sites/files had taken down by the opposition in Wiltshire

Now only readable by using the "Wayback Machine" The Internet Archive and putting in the search box the original URL

20 Nov 2001
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10 April 2002
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They're still at it , 07 July 2005 site taken down, replaced with and 2 more sites.